I always hear Grady mentioning about how he has a system to tell when a cue ball will double kiss the object ball when trying to cross side or cross corner bank.
In my mind, I just know whether a bank is possible or not, but I also know of ways to kill the cue ball or speed it up a little to get it out of the way.
These banks really only come into play with bank pool or one-pocket more so than 9 ball.
- cfryer5 on 11/27/2006 9:40:37 PM
Well I'm with you. I don't always use a system. I just know if it is bankable. A lot of shots are, depending on the angle.
An easy thing to remember is if you're banking to a pocket on the right, putting left spin on the cue ball with greatly increase that angle. The opposite goes for banking left e.g. use right on cue ball.
- asmith27 on 11/27/2006 10:12:50 PM
I am no expert but I will chime in anyway.
I handle my bank shots the same as you, in that I pretty much eye them up and it just looks right or wrong.
The one thing I have been working on is applying English in these types of shots. Of course you have to consider the distance between cue ball and object ball. You also have to consider the speed of your stroke that will determine the amount of throw placed on the object ball and the reaction of the object ball off of the rail and your resulting cue ball position on the next object ball. Other than that it’s a piece of cake.
Every shot scenario is so different I can’t imagine a perfect “system” that would be fool proof, but much like Shorty I would love to hear any suggestions.
As a last ditch effort to offer something useful to this conversation, I would suggest that you might try multiple staged scenarios with any and all English applications to the cue ball. Try to get a feel for it and with enough practice you’ll make it look easy. I have yet to achieve this but I saw it on TV so it must be possible.
- jgpool on 12/3/2006 10:21:34 AM
For cross-side or cross-banks, I was taught the following:
If you can shoot the cue ball straight into the pocket which is in the direction of your cue ball path when you have to go in front of an object ball when banking it, then the bank can be made without a double kiss.
All the while remembering that English can change things.
- Slowhand on 12/6/2006 12:46:04 PM
That's the same thing I was taught, and I believe I saw it in Grady's video too, so I'm guessing that's the system he's talking about.
Basically if you can shoot the OB straight into the corner pocket, and it's straight enough that the OB is blocking the pocket for a scratch, then there's a good chance you'll double kiss it if you try to bank it cross corner.
Same concept can be used for the side.
- One Pocket Smitty on 12/6/2006 9:30:38 PM
The deal about shooting the cue ball in the pocket is right on.
However, you can cheat the pocket a little by moving the cue ball away from the double kiss, but all in all is a good measure to go by.
- jgpool on 12/7/2006 8:21:26 AM
I am thinking that Charlie Shootman told me about this concept way back.
He might have picked it up from Grady when Grady was in Colorado Springs. Or the other way around.
- tpdtom on 4/4/2007 12:22:55 PM
According to Freddy "The Beard" Bentivegna in his book, all great bankers have one thing in common:
they try to stay on the vertical axis of the cue ball whenever possible
Most bank shots should be hit with one tip of follow for consistency. The cloth, the rails, the humidity, the balls themselves, and other things like position can change the angle and the degree of English that may be needed.
Most of us know that "follow" lengthens an angle, and that "draw" shortens it. Similarly, inside or reverse english tightens a bank, while outside or natural english widens it.
On a long slow bank (without english), at pocket speed, the "collision induced throw" will sometimes ruin a well-hit bank shot. All that might be needed is one tip of the correct english to overcome this but that's not always so.
I highly recommend Freddy's two books, "Banking with the Beard", and the "GosPool" to anyone who's serious about the subject. The best bankers like Bugs and Grady have all praised it and acknowledged the secrets contained in it.
Oh, by the way, if anyone ever has any doubts about the banking knowledge of Freddy, or even the players in Chicago in general, just go to North Shore Billiard Club and get in a game of Banks or One-Pocket . They take banking to a whole other level.
- BHQ on 4/4/2007 1:20:46 PM
I was taught the same method by a former world champ bank player. At least that what I was told about him, though I don't know that for a fact.
I just happened to ask him one day while we were playing one hole, how to tell when the kiss is on.
It makes sense and it works.
- CaptainHook on 11/26/2007 3:11:22 PM
Pass over banks are my favorite. I love to practice those.
- quickshot on 7/12/2008 6:44:04 PM
I rely on my natural Instinct which is honed with experience. Pure and simple.
- OldShooter on 7/13/2008 11:55:10 AM
If the OB and the CB are lined up for a direct shot into the pocket then you can beat the kiss. If they are lined up to be a direct shot into either cushion facing the kiss is on. I got that from Freddie's DVD and it works.