Valley Model 7450 20C Bar Table

11/24/2008 4:52:09 PM

Valley Model 7450 20C Bar Table

I am taking a shot in the dark here but I recently acquired a late 1960's Valley bar-style 6' pool table which is in very nice shape considering its age.

I looked online at the Valley home page and couldn't find the pool table.

I need a working description or picture of the Valley ball release system for this table. It is a Valley model 7450 20C coin-operated pool table, and I've learned that there are no parts available for this particular model.

I'm posting on the off chance that someone has one and doesn't mind taking a picture of the inner workings of it. That would be great. Also, if anyone has worked on this particular Valley model and might be able to walk me through how to make it work again, that would be nice too.

Thanks,
Mike

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Valley Model 7450 20C Bar Table

Replies & Comments

user1543788377 on 12/2/2018 2:06:18 PM
Was the 7450 20C Valley pool table a slate pool table?

billiardsforum on 12/8/2018 6:53:05 AM
I have always thought that all Valley coin-op pool tables had slate playfields. In just about every Valley brochure I have it specifically calls it out.

I can't find a brochure that lists the specific model in the original question here (the 7450 20C Valley pool table), but with some confidence I can say that it was likely a slate-based pool table.

user1543788377 on 12/8/2018 6:55:26 AM
Thank you, I'm acquiring one tomorrow.

billiardsforum on 12/8/2018 6:57:17 AM
Excellent.

It would be great if you could post a few photos when you get it set up and let me know for sure that it has a slate playfield.

user1543788377 on 12/8/2018 7:00:52 AM
I'll see what I can do. I'm getting it for almost free. Going to need a little work but I think it will be worth it. It was converted for home play years ago but seems to be in decent shape. This is current condition.

billiardsforum on 12/8/2018 8:52:16 AM
Thank you very much for the photos.

Not sure if you saw the Valley pool table serial number cross reference document, but your serial number falls in this entry in terms of date of manufacture:

VA13457 to VA15125: July 1960 to December 1960

Just by looking at the photos, I'd say its a great find if the price is very low as you mentioned. Little TLC and light restoration work and this pool table will be mint.

What does this say? I can't make it out.

user1543788377 on 12/8/2018 12:29:58 PM
Thanks for the information. I'm pretty sure those score keepers were added later. I think they say "easy count".

Any advice on taking a table like this apart? The legs and ball return look straightforward but I had planned on removing the slate as well to travel. I've never seen or taken apart a table this old. Do the rails unscrew from the outside edge and the slate lifts out like a standard valley bar box?

Interesting, someone is selling the old trade print ad for the table on eBay. Wonder if I can find more information there.

billiardsforum on 12/8/2018 1:07:03 PM
Wow, what are the chances? And funny this is one of the few that doesn't specifically call out the "slate playfield" (though I am still quite sure it has one).

I am not familiar with this model so I don't have any information on how the rails are engineered. I do know that these older Valley coin-op pool tables were built to be serviced by mom and pop coin machine company operators, so there is a good chance it will be straight forward.

For others looking, here is the Valley 7450 print ad:

Also, I found a color version, from 1959 apparently. And YES - it does reference the "slate playfields" noting that the slate is USA-sourced.

...and one more that has been restored:

user1543788377 on 12/8/2018 1:15:46 PM
Wow, you've been a great help.

I am corrected, those easy counts are original. Looks like a great table restored. 535lbs is lighter than I thought. And slate like you said. I only questioned it because I came across a wood playfield Valley home pool table from the 1950s in someone's basement.

I think I might get that print ad off eBay as well, be kind of neat to have it framed.

billiardsforum on 12/8/2018 1:19:06 PM
Agreed. For the price of the brochure, I'd do the same.

Looking forward to seeing your setup once you get it all done.

user1543788377 on 12/8/2018 1:20:34 PM
Thanks, me too. I hope to progressively get it done in the next year.

The pool table moved really easily, and I was able to disassemble it in minutes. It looks good now but after a little work I think it will be a nice pool table.

I looked behind the coin mechanism, unfortunately it has been pretty much gutted.

Work on the pool table and game room begins.

billiardsforum on 12/10/2018 2:01:00 PM
It looks amazing! Thanks again for sharing and we'll watch for the "after" photos.

user1545979135 on 2/2/2019 12:09:06 PM
Are the measurements of the area inside the rails is 32" x 64" on this pool table?

If so, then I have one of these Valley 7450 pool tables also. See my other post ID an Old 5 1/2 Foot Slate Pool Table

user1543788377 on 2/2/2019 12:14:02 PM
The slate on the Valley 7450 pool table is 68"x36". It is a 6-foot pool table.

I can't tell whether your pool table is a Valley 7450. It looks like it's been worked on a lot.

By the way, I managed to design and print out a replacement rack holder. If needed it's on thingiverse.

Carter.S on 7/15/2019 9:42:30 PM
I believe I have this same Valley pool table (original).

I'm also wondering in another post about the value of a Valley 7450 pool table in a different post, if anyone has any insight into how much they are worth.

JINX KB on 8/25/2020 12:34:55 PM
I have one of these Valley 7450-20C pool tables as well. I am in the process of restoring it, and converting it to use a magnetic cue ball in place of the over-sized cue ball.

This has been a difficult task so far with no mechanical diagrams for the ball carriage mechanism. I'm currently working on the linkage between the coin chute and the lower carriage.

I am also converting the sub rails from a wood screw to a through bolt using a threaded insert in the sub rail. Most of the solid wood on this table turns out to be mahogany. So i'm trying to restore as much as I can.

I'll add a link to an imgur album of my progress thus far for anyone interested.

OP, if you see this, I found your rack holder plans on Thingiverse and used your model to make one out of wood. Thanks for that! Also, mine looks to be the same color as yours, a dark red/brown color. Minwax "red mahogany" stain seems to be a good match for color.

If anyone else has one of these Valley 7450-20C pool tables with any of the internal coin op mechanism in tact, I'd LOVE to see some photos. It would really help me in the restoration process.

Here is the patent for the ball return/carriage mechanism in the Valley 7450 pool table, U.S. patent #3115341 - "Pool Table with Ball-Releasing Means", filed Oct. 27, 1960. Nothing is to scale, but the mechanics are shown here. I have been using this as a guide for building the missing components. Hopefully this helps someone else as well. It took me a while to dig this up.

Also, here is an album of my progress on the Valley 7450 pool table conversion and restoration on my Valley 7450 coin-op restoration and magnetic cue conversion project.

There is lots more work to do...

Is there anyone with one of these pool tables which has a working coin-op mechanism?

RayMills on 8/25/2020 3:21:15 PM
This is probably a stupid question, but why are y'all restoring the coin system for pool tables that you'll use in your homes? Are you planning on reselling them after?

When I had one of these, I removed the plastic "glass" to access the balls. Are they still plastic, or were they originally glass?

My Valley pool table was the first one where I took the time to muffle the ball-clunking chutes.

JINX KB on 8/26/2020 7:07:50 AM
I enjoy coin-op machines. I also have a 1950s EM pinball machine.

The function of the ball return is what makes these coin-op pool tables unique. Restoration is a labor of love. I worked in a pool hall for years, practically lived there. So restoring this pool table to its former glory is not only nostalgic, but is also fun and somewhat therapeutic.

I have no intention of selling this pool table. It will be very unique. As I said, its a labor of love for billiards and of these old machines.

user1634664766 on 10/19/2021 10:32:47 AM
This may be late but, I have a working coin mechanism for a Valley 7450 pool table.

user1543788377 on 10/19/2021 10:51:56 AM
@JINX KB, really cool. Funnily enough, I ended up printing one out in wood filament as well and used the red mahogany stain by Minwax too.

I've done a lot of work on my Valley pool table since last working on it. I'll try to find some photos. I made new feet for mine out of aluminum plates, fixed the rails, and reclothed it in a wine colored cloth.

I also designed and printed out replacement score keepers that fit the pool table. They're blank with no lettering except for the numbers. I coated mine in an automotive clear coat. If anyone is interested, I can post them somewhere like cults.

Here are some photos of my new score keepers, cloth, and customer pool table cover.

By the way, to make the rack holder more real-looking, I embedded a lithophane model of wood grain into the rack holder face before printing it.

billiardsforum on 11/7/2021 6:27:14 AM
@user1543788377 - you've done a fantastic job on the restoration of your Valley pool table.

To me, it looks far better now than it would have looked when originally brand new.

You've got some skill. Kudos, and thanks for sharing the project. It's been great following the progress.

ritsonmatt on 2/13/2022 9:08:09 AM
Where do you guys find parts?

I have a Valley 7450 pool table as well. I'm not sure of the year , but I would say that it is from the 1960s.

I've been trying to find parts. Does anyone have any idea on where I can find parts for a Valley 7450 pool table?

dougmullin on 5/13/2023 9:41:05 PM
I have two of these Valley 7450 pool tables. One was pretty much gutted, and the second seems to be pretty much complete.

Both are missing the "easy count" attachments on the opposing sides, but they both have holes where they would gave been screwed in, so I believe those were standard issue. Maybe someone can print these up if they have an original.

I made a ball catch for the gutted one as well as a push latch cover for the coin mechanism area that makes a nice storage for stuff.

user1543788377 on 5/13/2023 9:49:35 PM
I designed and printed replacements for the score keeper. Look on cults or thingiverse for "Valley". I posted the files there.

Have fun,
Steve

JINX KB on 5/14/2023 9:52:09 AM
I realize that I have never posted photos of my finished Valley 7450 pool table restoration.

I ended up converting the pool table to use a magnetic cue ball (instead of an over-sized cue ball) by placing magnets in a few places and building out the inside tracks. It took some time, but it works really well.

I fabricated parts to make the coin-op portion work as originally designed.

I also had to repair the rail guides. I had to saw a new one from poplar, and convert them to bolt on instead of using the original wood screws to attach.

Here are some photos.

user1543788377 on 5/14/2023 10:44:10 AM
@JINX KB - Wow, that looks fantastic. Well done!

dougmullin on 5/21/2023 2:09:01 AM
@JINX KB - I love the work you did on your Valley 7450 pool table. A few questions for you:
1. The felt on the interior areas really pops. Did you just go a few inches in on the cue compartment, or did you bust it open?
2. I have some repairs to do on the ball release mechanism. If you have more photos of that area, would you please share them here?
3. What did you use on the wood finish?
4. I thought the serial numbers on this model started at #15XXX. Is your serial #10926?
@user1543788377 (Steve) - I think I saw your file to print the "easy count" accessory, but I don't have a 3D printer. Do you have other suggestions for that?

JINX KB on 5/22/2023 11:36:58 AM
@dougmullin - Thanks.
1. I lined the whole cue compartment with cloth.
2. My ball return mechanism had zero parts when I got it, so I built everything from scratch. It might not be useful for you for repairs to an existing ball return mechanism. See the three photos below.
3. I used shellac on the outside-facing wood for the refinish.
4. The serial number on mine is actually #10926.
Here are a few photos of the ball return mechanism:

user1543788377 on 5/22/2023 11:57:11 AM
@dougmullin - There are 3D printing services out there where someone prints it for you, mails it to you, and you finish it by sanding/painting to your own specs. Look up 3D printing services. Mine were printed on a resin machine. I don't know how much it would cost but if you want a complete-ish pool table, it might be worth it.

@JINX KB - Amazing work.

dougmullin on 5/29/2023 7:54:50 PM
@user1543788377 (Steve) - How did you paint the numbers on the score keepers?

@JINX KB - Nice job on recreating the guts for the coin operation, that's cool. Also the magnetic ball return is pretty sweet.
1. Did you sand down the pool table, or just re-coat it with Shellac?
2. How did you get enough "felt" to do the internal gut?
By the way, the second Valley 7450 pool table I just acquired appears to have all the guts. The coin mechanism goes in and out without coins in it, so I need to figure that out. Also, when you push in the coin mechanism, it pushes the ball release in, but it doesn't return to catch the balls. There are the remains of a spring that is probably the issue, so I'll have to figure that out.

Thanks for posting the patent info with the drawing. Hopefully that will help.

A couple of issues I had with my first Valley 7450 pool table were:
1. The rails of the ball return chutes are all wood so it is was pretty loud as the balls rolled down, especially if you're playing pool at 3 AM. For that reason I ended up lining them with the cloth they wrap DJ speakers in. It appears you added some white 1/4 round cushioning probably for the same reason.
2. The other thing, and I don't remember how I addressed this, was that the balls would jump out of the rail and fall down into the bottom of the table. I would have to pull the slate out to get them out.

JINX KB on 5/30/2023 9:34:50 AM
@dougmullin:
1. I sanded down the sides and corners and had to fill in some deep gouges. After that, I finished it with shellac.
2. I used the old felt from the table top to line the inside after placing down backer board on the runs to quiet everything down. I also used rubber mat, cut to size, for the return. This helps to quiet everything, to slow down the balls, and to help prevent any denting of the wooden parts that made contact with the balls.
Attached are a few photos to give an idea of how I placed the magnets and what the ball runs look like.

I forgot that I actually have an imgur gallery which includes all the photos of the restoration and a couple short videos from testing the magnetic return.

imgur.io/gallery/yGYtoa

user1543788377 on 5/30/2023 9:55:15 AM
@JINX KB - Awesome work.

@dougmullin - The numbers are recessed. I painted them red with a thick paint (a few times) to make them proud of the surface. Then I sanded them down and applied automotive clear-coat to the whole thing.

user1686021013 on 6/5/2023 11:10:14 PM
I have a pair of same style Valley 7450 pool tables, but in the 7-foot size. One is the 59/60 with only 2 dot rails and other is the 60/61.

I think my serial numbers are in the 12000 range but I’d have to look. It has been so long since I have researched them.

There are some very nice restorations shown here. Mine are pretty clean but both need cloth and new rubber cushions, but I am still playing on them now. One is missing a coin mechanism but the other has one, so one is in free-play mode and the other is set to a quarter a game.

I don't like using an oversized cue ball, so it costs a quarter if ya scratch! LOL.

JINX KB on 6/8/2023 5:39:58 PM
If anybody here has a Valley 7450 pool table with a working coin-op mechanism, and is willing to snap a photo of the internals behind the coin door, I would greatly appreciate it.

In particular, I am looking to see the triangle-shaped rotating parts and the bar that is pushed by the coin chute.

My re-created version is a little bit hard to press and I'm trying to correct that. Seeing the original parts would be really helpful.

Thanks!

user1707966177 on 2/14/2024 10:02:58 PM
I have one of these and I've re-clothed it, but I'm looking to replace all the rails and need to find a source and the correct sizing.

Does anyone know the cushion size for a Valley 7450 pool table?

bobwhite on 3/19/2024 2:29:19 PM
Great thread. Great information.

I’m in Bowling Green, Kentucky and looking to buy a six foot Valley 7450 pool table.

dougmullin on 3/19/2024 2:38:54 PM
@user1707966177 - Are you missing the old ones?

I can do some measurements on mine and let you know, if that’s all you are needing.

rehmajr on 7/3/2025 7:05:24 AM
@jinx kb, can you give any pointers on how to disassemble a 7450? Picking one up this weekend and figure if someone can help me understand how to get it apart it's way faster than me working it out on site. Thanks!

user1543788377 on 7/3/2025 7:08:40 AM
It's really easy. Unscrew the rails from the outside rim. Should be visible on outside of the box. Lift the slate out. Then the legs come off easily after that. Just simple hand tools. I'd never disassembled a pool table before and it only took 30 min.

rehmajr on 7/3/2025 7:22:25 AM
Awesome, I really appreciate that feedback. Snagged this for $250. Will probably implements your sound deadening for the ball return. Out of curiosity, why the magnetic return? This is the first pool table I've owned and am not terribly knowledgeable on the innards. Have an awesome day!

JINX KB on 7/3/2025 4:11:45 PM
I converted it to a magnetic return so the cue wouldn't have to be oversized (that's how the original cue return works) and would still utilize the return slot instead of having to retrieve it from the ball return after a scratch.

Plus it was a challenge covid time project.

JINX KB on 7/3/2025 4:20:36 PM
@rehmajr if yours has a working original ball return, I'd love to see some photos of the mechanism to compare it to my recreation.

rehmajr on 7/6/2025 10:14:14 AM
@jinks kb, will do as soon as i have a chance. Picking it up tomorrow evening if all works out.

It needs to be refelted, I'm not seeing felt this small online. Do I just snag a 6ft and cut it down? Never done it before, but figure worst case I get a learning experience.