Unknown Brunswick model
4/27/2008 1:11:42 AM
Unknown Brunswick model
I've been reading your forums for the last couple of weeks as I moved from site to site searching for info on old Brunswick tables and just registered, as I appreciate the knowledgeable help given to a few.
My particular situation is my father's pool table. He purchased it in '71 from a guy that either told him it was a Brunswick or perhaps it was on the slate or bumpers. If it is a Brunswick, it appears to be a 'slant side' model. The odd issue is the number of bolts between the pockets. By all appearances (sans a 'Brunswick' label or stencil), it appears to be a Brunswick 'Victor' or 'Aviator' slant-side model matching the range of patent dates on the label, but all images or sketches I've found of similar tables have only 3 bolts between the pockets.
Can anyone help identify the table and/or provide a reference for a broker that might be interested in finding a home for it? My father & mother finally (after 30 years) agree that it is time for the table to go.
Thanks in advance for any assistance. Finding a home for this table would make my mother very happy.
Unknown Brunswick model
Replies & Comments
- billiardsforum on 4/27/2008 7:11:05 AM
Is that design patent number 23937? I've located those patent documents, and I'll post them if you have not already read them.
- JRD869 on 4/27/2008 6:33:41 PM
Please do. I have not read them. Was it practice for Brunswick to affix patent labels for much younger tables, or is that an indication of its probable age? JR
- billiardsforum on 4/27/2008 7:32:03 PM
I am not sure what the patent procedures were for the Brunswick Co. but I can tell you that anyone or any company who made anything like, related to, or to improve a billiard table, a patent was taken out.
You might also find something here (brunswickbilliards.com/our_rich_history/antique_tables/) Unfortunately, they have a disclaimer saying that they can't help anyone with the exact details. (for obvious reasons)
Here are the patents for US Design 23937 (if thats what it actually says in your image, its hard to tell). They actually appear to be filed by a private citizen, and were probably purchased by a major manufacturer. The asignee of the patent, according to the USPTO is Brunswick.
- Patent number: D23937 (D Stands for "Design" patent - there are about 8 different types)
- Filing date: Aug 23, 1893
- Issue date: Jan 1, 1895
- Inventor: BIRGER BARK
- Assignee: THE BRUNSWICK BALKE
...or you can download the PDF document of the brunswick billiard table patent 23937 here. The content is the same as in the images, but it is easier for printing, etc.
- JRD869 on 4/27/2008 9:07:31 PM
I find your points interesting: The patent describes features not present on my father's table...except the sloped base and I had already browsed the Brunswick pages you mention, which is where the 'Victor' model reference came from. The sketch of the Victor model has only 3 bolts between the pockets and I couldn't find a model with sloped sides with 4 bolts. The Aviator was another similar design, but I can't believe the Brunswick historians would get the number of bolts wrong...it still has only 3. I browsed the entire list again and, interestingly, only a couple of models incorporate features of the patent, including the Marquette, Rochester, Westminister & Pfister.
Ah-HAH!, I did not see the Mikado before. The Mikado is the only model that has the exact same slope & style of legs. However, once again the quality of sketch leaves out the key detail of the # of bolts. My father did say that the slate (of which I would have to confirm his memory of # of pieces) was secured with bolts that had to be overfilled/smoothed on assembly.
Mikado Technical Information: From page 14 of the 1912 Carom and Pocket Tables Catalogue of the Brunswick-Balke-Collender Company.
Also available in a combination table. Design patent granted May 7, 1912. Manufactured under various patents granted from 1892 to 1905.
The Mikado style is of a recent design and is intended to meet the demand for a medium grade of table which has no ornate moldings or ornamentations.
Wood and Finish: Quarter-sawed oak, cross veneer, finished in Dark Golden Oak.
Construction: Framework of body is 1 7/8" x 12 1/2" wide. Reinforcing blocks at corners 1 3/4" x 8" x 12". Leg bolt caps 9" square x 2 1/2" thick. Legs 8 1/4" square x 16 1/2" high. Long stretchers 1 1/4" thick x 5 1/2". Cross stretchers 1 1/4" x 8 1/2" countersunk in sides and ends. Bridge work very substantial and rigid. Bronze cushion caps. The wood construction all of good quality, cabinet made and put together in a most thorough manner. All joints made close and secure and all mitres absolutely accurate. Joints are tongued and grooved, strongly doweled and glued or screwed firmly together. All corners and edges made perfectly smooth and true. The legs are attached to the frame work with a 20" x 1/2" iron bolt. Mitered corners, rigid construction, not built in sections.
Cushion Rails: Cabinet construction, 1 3/4" x 3 3/8". The hardwood core is reinforced with one thickness of veneer on each side, thereby giving it additional strength. The cap rail is veneered with rosewood.
Slate bed: Good quality Vermont, 3 or 4 slab slate to the set, not doweled, firmly screwed to a wood frame 7/8" thick.
Cushions: Standard Monarch, style no. 1888, certified by trademark plate set in cap of cushion rail.
Pockets: No. 3 style, with nickel plated flanges countersunk in cushion rail top, provided with invisible bolts from the lower side of rail. Heavy black cover leather and red trimming leather. No. 30 green worsted pocket nets.
I'm asking him to confirm some details of his memory of assembly/construction vs. the description above & the patent # as well (which I believe you correctly noted).
- michaele1958 on 12/5/2009 6:58:19 PM
I have a friend who has a Brunswick Orleans 9 foot slate (4x1x9) billard table, The model is a KL, serial # 3160, made in Italy. He has a person coming over to look at it and make an offer. I have searched all over the web and cannot find this model so I can see what thjis particular model is selling for.... Can anyone help me out with an estimated price? Please...... Thank you very much.... Michael
- mbbaumer on 12/25/2009 7:58:36 PM
I have an Aviator model. Some of the leg detail is not correct for your pool table to be the Aviator model, if I had to guess I think it is a Mikado. The black and brown leather was a combination used on the Mikado. Most of the research I have done concerning the Aviator shows only a single color.
- rch105 on 1/4/2010 5:57:38 AM
Being the owner of a Mikado, IMHO, it is a Mikado. It appears to be in a very good condition. They are a good playing table. Should you need assistance, Ken Hash from MD is most helpful .
- GDuke on 1/18/2016 5:33:11 PM
I just this morning brought home a Mikado pool table. The overall condition is good, the felt was redone about 8 years ago and at that time they said it had a value of $3500. The only problem I see is that the veneer on the inside of the table base is cracked and peeling away.
One real question, with the thought of keeping and improving its value, what to do with the inside veneer. How does anyone deal with veneer peeling off the inside of the base?
I want to keep and improve its value with this decision.
Since I have to store it for now, I have time to restore it. I would say the overall condition is great. All veneer on the outside is fine, just dirty. This table was played on for many years while sitting in a Kights Lodge. The lodge closed and no one wanted to take the table so its now in my hands.
Seeing "restored" Mikado tables being listed upwards of 10K, a well deserved restore should be done.
The slate is in great condition, the side rails have a wonderful color and the appearance of thousands of hands that have passed over them.
Is there a way to pin down the actual year of manufacture from the numbers printed on and stamped on the base?
Unknown Brunswick model
- Title: Unknown Brunswick model
- Author: JRD869
- Published: 4/27/2008 1:11:42 AM