When I finally learned about the APA, I was excited and couldn't wait to join. I got to meet nice & fun people who all shared the same love for the game. It was exciting playing against people I had never felt before that were cocky and convinced they had the game in the bag. My game only gets better if I don't know the person, but little did they know. The first few weeks on the APA was fun, till BS pool politics came to play. I was asked to down play my game, so I wouldn't be ranked higher. That meant throwing games, and having to take the criticism from the opponent full face. That really sucked, since I had to pay upfront $5 for each game, even the ones I lost purposely. Has anyone had to deal with this BS? I had thought that it was probably the choice of team I was in. But ALL NEW BS happened on another team with totally different team mates and captain.....I gave the APA two years, and it was long enough... All I have to show for it, is a BREAK & RUN patch I won at match WOOOHOOO...
What have you confronted GOOD or BAD playing for the APA?
- quickshot on 5/27/2008 9:21:00 AM
Sara: I am going into a summer league, my first time on the circuit, and I have zero knowledge of how the league operates. I read your post with interest an I will now be wary of the politics that may or may not come into play. There is one thing that is written in stone after all my years on this planet: no cheating. If it ever comes to that point I will pick up my marbles and leave. But, I am looking forward to the competition and having some one to practice with in the spare time.
- Sara on 5/27/2008 1:30:56 PM
Good luck this summer! Defintely stand up to any politicing should it happen. It just not fair to be taken advantange of if you are new, and are just eager to play and learn. I'm glad my post was able to inform you. Hope it informs others too. In my own little way, it's my way of getting back at the APA for having their teams cheat and get away with it. Just remember, track where your fees go, and make sure your captain can be trusted when turning in the money. Always have your eyes open on & off the game... Kick some butt!
- dlabout on 6/11/2008 5:24:34 PM
I have been playing in the APA since 1990. In my 18 years there are the inevitable accusations of sandbagging.
I have always played to my ability and if a team can't deal with it then contact your league operator and have them find you a new team. I would venture that NO team captain wants to be out-ted by a player for the sake of sandbagging.
If there is anything I have learned about the APA it is that there are good and bad in competition. I have experienced the 60 year old man throwing his cue in a tantrum and the thrill of someone making their first 3 ball run.
Accept that you can't always change the bad and revel in the good people you meet. Some of my best friends in my life are from the APA.
If you would like to ask any questions or advice feel free to contact me.
- quickshot on 6/15/2008 3:20:21 PM
Interesting point about the sandbagging. I do not believe in it and agree with you about playing to ones full ability. I do know a sandbagger in the APA because he wants to stay at a 5. I don't understand why as he is a good shooter. He does not want to go to a 6. I also do not agree with him in his position. I've know enough sandbaggers in golf, and I do not need them in pool. As you mentioned, there is the good and the bad, and I might add the ugly as in the guy throwing his cue in a tantrum. I have to believe the bad and the ugly are in the minority. The old 10% rule. It applies to just about every organization. I am starting to play in a summer league and I'm looking forward to it as I have never played competitive pool before. After 50 years I'm just getting back to shooting pool.
- onthebreak on 6/18/2008 7:53:33 AM
I have played APA nine ball for seven years and the way people sandbag amazes me. My team was recently playing in the city consolation tournament and ran into this. We are a very capable team and everybody plays true to there handicap. We made it to the quarter finals out of a about a hundred teams. We start off the match by throwing a fairly strong four and the opposing team throws a four that proceeds to beat our guy 17-3 in eight innings ... this is a four mind you making four balls an inning. No biggie though so they throw a four in the second match and we play our best four and he loses 16-4 in eleven innings with two defensive shots. I am usually not one to complain about sandbagging but come on. We took it to the fifth match but still lost in the end. Starting out in the whole 33-7 in what amounts to two players playing at least three handicaps below where they should be sucks. I know during city tournament time everybody steps there game up but... this is ridiculous. But I love the game so we push on...
- quickshot on 6/18/2008 9:33:45 AM
It is unfortunate that there are people who need to win so bad that they will resort to cheating. And obviously, it is a team thing in that the others stand by and condone it. How can one enjoy a victory won by deception? And it is not only the billiard game. The deception extends to many areas of the sandbagger's life.
- billiardsforum on 6/18/2008 11:11:10 AM
Are there any repercussions for those found to be sandbagging? I know its impossible to prove. Not having played APA, I wonder if the teams have "capitans" or leaders or some kind?
Can't those leaders monitor for this? Would a reporting system help?
The other thing to think about is that at each level, you have people at the very bottom of that level, and at the very top of that level. Those at the very bottom of the level (per their true skill level) could easily fall 1 level down, and then would be at the very top of that lower level. Others in the middle and bottom of that level might say that player is sandbagging, and should be playing up one level.
There has to be a line somewhere, and players will range within a level. Maybe the top players in a range are just perceived as sandbagging? (but aren't consciously doing it)
- quickshot on 6/18/2008 11:54:49 AM
You make some valid points in your post. Every player has good and bad days, and some may even go into a slump due to a stroke being off or a change in aiming etc. due to a player not realizing he/she has a problem with the playing zone. Once realized, a player would look to fix the problem with the help of some of his/her team members. This is my belief since it is a team effort and helping each other is crucial to the long haul.
As for sandbaggers, the "line" is the team captain. He has to know his/her people, and if the captain condones a member sandbagging shame on him. As @onthebreak pointed out, they tolerate the baggers because "they, the players, love the game and push on". And that is why the baggers thrive on. I guess it is a part of the billiard legend.
- truetopool on 7/4/2008 12:32:50 AM
Hi I am new to the forum but an experienced APA team captain for three years running now. We have sandbagging in our division also. I have never told anyone on my team to nothing more than to play their best. If they go up in skill level they go up.
You can make a call to the APA office for a handicap reveiw but works best is proper scorekeeping. If it is an intentional miss that gets marked as a defense. If you feel it was a defense shot mark it as one, it don't matter if the other team gets upset about the marked defenses, It's "your" score sheet. The tougher thing to do is insure the other teams within your division are keeping proper score. A way to bring the subject up is to complain about sandbagging then tell them that you read somewhere that marked defenses count against the innings.
I will try to run down some examples of defensive shots.
Sara, I hate that you had a bad experience with that one team. Try to find another team that you would feel comfortable around and that are there just to have fun. As I tell people before they join that if they want to have fun we have a spot for them, if they want to go to vegas they might want to find another team. You could get together a couple of friends and captain a team yourself, it's not that hard.
Keep the ball rollin'