Hoppe Cue Identification
2/6/2019 11:43:24 AM
Hoppe Cue Identification
I would much appreciate any input regarding the year (or time period) when this cue was made.
It has the Hoppe signature on the forearm.
Many thanks in advance.
Hoppe Cue Identification
Replies & Comments
Chopdoc on 2/7/2019 4:15:20 AMThe cue is not original, it has been modified, so it is difficult.
A close up good pic of the veneers would help. Also same with signature.
Right now all I can say is anywhere from the 1940's to the 1960's.
Seth on 2/7/2019 5:41:32 AM
Thanks, @Chopdoc. There’s a thread on AZB right now about people in pool who give back, and you are one of them.
Yes, I too thought it has been modified. I’m expecting it tomorrow, and will get a better look then. I’ll also be able to take close up photos and post them.
At the moment my attention is on the wrap.
In some cue catalogs and brochures said to depict Brunswick cues from 1964-1969 which are shown in an earlier question "Value a 1970 Brunswick Willie Hoppe Cue Made by Adam?, you can see striped wraps (nylon?) that appear to be similar to the wrap on the cue that I’ve picked up. (you were one of two main contributors)
This is making think that it is from the 1960’s. I’m thinking the modification is the butt cap, but I’m not well educated about these cues, and have no conclusion.
Again, thanks for your input.
- Chopdoc on 2/7/2019 9:22:31 AM
Hi, and thank you. I enjoy talking cues.
I think that is a re-wrap of an earlier cue. It could have been done any time. I also believe the butt cap and bumper were added.
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Finally took a few close ups of the signature and the points. Hopefully these will be helpful.
- Chopdoc on 2/20/2019 5:34:59 PM
I am guessing the cue is from the late fifties to early sixties. It had a re-wrap at some point later, and a butt cap and bumper added as well.
I highly doubt it came from Brunswick that way or that Brunswick modified it.
Thanks, @Chopdoc. I appreciate your feedback.
FYI - From Jerry R, who has physically inspected the cue for me:
Brunswick made that butt that way with a nylon wrap, no one has tampered with that butt.
- Chopdoc on 2/26/2019 9:32:10 PM
Interesting. He is a respected cue maker of course.
I never said anything was "tampered with".
Curious that Brunswick would use a non-Brunswick rubber bumper. But of course, they could use anything they want.
And the finish deteriorating one third of the way down the forearm is of course very telling as well. As if it were sanded below that point to preserve the stamped signature while adding the wrap and butt cap to a previously finished cue.
The wrap material was common and available from Brunswick. But the butt cap material is atypical (though not unavailable in general) for Brunswick.
He is one of the cue makers I have never spoken with. I would love to talk to him about this cue. I am not hard to find.
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FYI, I didn’t reference you, or use the words "tampered with". I said;
"Also, I’m guessing that the cue was modified at some point in the past, as the wrap is striped nylon, the butt cap doesn’t seem like a Titlist butt cap, and I question whether the butt sleeve is original."
Jerry’s statement was in reply to that.
@Chopdoc, I stumbled on this cue on eBay:
Vintage Brunswick 2 Piece Pool Cue 57” Estate Find 20 oz
Source: ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Brunswick-2-Piece-Pool-Cue-57-Estate-Find-20-oz/113834637756
It made me think that maybe the striped wrap, butt cap, and bumper on the Hoppe cue above may in fact be original.
Thoughts?
- Chopdoc on 8/13/2019 8:18:18 AM
That's a low grade Asian import, and much later than the cue in question. Little or nothing to do with this cue except it is branded a Brunswick.
As I have said, Brunswick could do anything they want. They could use whatever parts they want. I have never seen a model with these features from them but can't deny they could have done it.
It does look to me like the work, such as the wrap, butt cap, and bumper, were done later. Could Brunswick have done that work? Sure.
The cue needs to be refinished and have repairs anyway. I think the originality becomes a bit of a trivial matter in light of that.
There are numerous others that made such cues, such as Gus Adams. He was a Brunswick mechanic that went out on his own and made many Titlist and Hoppe conversions.
I think most likely someone made this from a Brunswick cue. It could have been done by Brunswick themselves. It could be called a "conversion" or "rebuild". I have little reason to think it is in it's original state as originally built by Brunswick.
Thanks for the reply.
The only reason I pointed to that cue on eBay is that I thought I saw some similarities - a striped wrap, a butt cap that seemed similar, and a bumper with a shape and size that seemed similar.
I do agree with you that because the cue needs to be refinished and repaired, and thus the originality becomes a trivial matter. Well put.
Hoppe Cue Identification
- Title: Hoppe Cue Identification
- Author: Seth
- Published: 2/6/2019 11:43:24 AM
- Last Updated: 2/8/2019 3:38:30 PM
- Last Updated By: billiardsforum (Billiards Forum)
