Trouble with Cue Ball Draw
9/21/2008 4:36:05 PM
Trouble with Cue Ball Draw
Hey I was wondering why i cant draw the english ball. I can put right hand and left hand english but no draw. What should i do? Does it have anything to do with the pool table or the cue stick?
Trouble with Cue Ball Draw
Replies & Comments
Ginger on 9/21/2008 4:44:15 PM
Draw is not affected by the condition of the pool table nor the the quality of the cue stick.
Can you explain what you ARE trying? Typically you want to strike the cue ball just a bit below the center. Also, check out this article, 4th or 5th paragraph:
wii-wii on 9/21/2008 4:50:42 PM
Yeah I am trying to make the ball come back. I read that but i still can't.
billiardsforum on 9/21/2008 5:05:10 PMI know how frustrated you must be! Ok, so can you tell us what happens when you try? Map it out for us.
So you shoot slightly below center, and what? does the cue ball have any backspin at all? Have you tried raising the angle of your cue during your stroke execution?
Three factors of the shot you should look at when trouble shooting:
- The harder the shot, the more backspin you'll get
- The lower you contact the cue ball, the more spin you'll get.
- distance between cue ball and object ball. longer distance the more it'll reduce spin.
on coin op tables, cue ball is heavier, which equals less spin. Also, the worse condition the cloth, the lower the spin you'll get.
Use a closed hand bridge, and grip the cue loosely.
I hit the ball under the center and the ball glides. I have tried different angles and it does the same thing or it jumps. After the ball is hit the cue ball follows or just stops. ugh... Thanks for being so helpful.
- billiardsforum on 9/21/2008 5:19:51 PM
Yeah, I know it can be damn frustrating. Have you tried video taping yourself? Sometimes you don't even realize what you are doing wrong (or not doing) until you see yourself.
quickshot on 9/21/2008 5:32:15 PMYou should not be using angles. The cue stick should be level. Try this and see what happens. Take 2 striped ball and put them on the table with the stripes in a horizontal position about 8 inches from each other. To create a draw keep the cuestick level and relaxed in your hand. One of the balls will be the cue ball and the other the object ball. Set up with the one that will be the CB and aim to hit it just below the stripe line. It should be low enough to create a draw.
But in order to do that, you must follow through with the stroke. Do not stop the movement. Think about driving the cue tip right through the cue ball. It will take a take a little practice, but once you get the feel that you are driving the cue tip the draw will happen.
Here is the video you told me to do anything pop out?
dkrager on 9/22/2008 8:43:26 AMI could be wrong but it looks like your tip is coming up through the stroke and hitting center ball resulting in a stop shot. It also appears you are jabbing at the ball.
Do you see the angle you are addressing the ball prior to the stroke? Notice that if you were to draw an imaginary line coming off the cue and through the cue ball the line would go right down to the mat? Well that’s what you want to do. Drive down toward the mat. Follow through is also very important when performing the draw shot. Those little jabs work great on stun shots but for draw you need a longer follow through in order to develop the spin.
Try this, set an OB about 12" off a side pocket and the CB center table. Then set a piece of chalk about 2 1/2" out in front of the CB. Now perform the shot only concentrating on stroke and follow through. When you finish your stroke FREEZE and check your position. You want your tip to finish right out next to the chalk and down toward the mat. One other thing, don't jack up the back of your cue. This has the effect of causing the cue ball to float above the felt and you wont get the bite on the felt in order for the CB to come back. To demonstrate this principal set up a CB as though you were going to lag and then put a quarter on the table about 6-12" in front of the CB. Now fire off a pure center ball shot. You should hear the CB go thunk when it goes over the quarter. Now do the same shot again only this time jack up the back of your cue. The CB will silently jump the quarter just about every time to the amazement of all your friends.
Anyway try that side pocket drill it should get you going on draw fairly quickly. Once you have that down start experimenting with longer distances between the CB and OB.
Hope this helps, Dave
- quickshot on 9/22/2008 9:30:47 AM
If you watch the video carefully you are stopping the cuestick and letting it go up on impact. This would indicate to me that you are also picking up your head which causes the tip to go up in the air instead instead of following through on the stroke. I want you to try this: Line up about 8 balls about 6-8 inches behind the head spot. Then take 3 pieces of paper, letter size, and lay them in a line on the head spot. Now hit each ball with medium speed in the vertical center. The tip of your cue should end up over the paper pointing down at the felt. This can only happen if you are using a good follow through.
In order to do this you must keep your head down until the OB is on its way back to the paper. Once you get this drill down pat and part of your stroke, then try doing a draw shot. I suggest you print this out and keep it by the table as a ready reference. Remember, at the end of the stroke the tip should be pointing at the felt. Also, be aware of your grip. It should not be tight.
Mitch Alsup on 9/22/2008 2:58:36 PM
It is clear from the video that you are actually striking the ball very near the center. You line up 1 tip down, but you impact dead center. This shows that something fundamental is wrong with your stroke--possibly body movement, sholder movement, or dropping your elbow to soon. You want you whole body except for the forearm to be absolutely motionless when stroking the ball. Zoom back out and take another video showing us your body during the strokes. I bet you are moving around a lot.
Secondly, you are hitting the ball quite hard, you do not need to hit the ball hard to make it stop or come back a little. A nice smooth stroke with a well chalked tip should work wonders.
can someone post a video of them doing it with the same camera angle that i had. I would greatly appreciate it. Im going to get this.
- quickshot on 9/22/2008 9:17:02 PM
The best way to get it is to follow the great advice you have received on this forum. There are other area on this site where a chock full of info is available if you look for it. The bottom line is: There are no magic bullets in the solution.
You must have a proper stance, a good stroke (like the instructions I gave you) and very good follow through. Believe me, watching a 20 second video will leave you more confused than ever. The only other suggestion I have is to buy a billiards lessons video at one of the pool websites. And then, as I mentioned before, practice... practice... practice.
I will say this one more time. I watched the video again and you are pulling the cue back instead of following through. Do the striped ball drill if you haven't done so yet. You are also hitting the CB too hard.
I looked at the video once more. You're striking the CB too hard to begin with, and you are stopping the cue stick on impact. In other words you are not following through with the stroke. Go back to the two stripped drill I gave you. Practice it and you will see result.
gabi on 10/2/2008 7:12:18 PM
try to shoot like if u want to pass through the cue ball...more u let it easy go through with a good stroke below cue ball more u'll throw back ur cue ball...after u'll have to control your throw back but of course u need to play a lot magandang magic gabi philippines
dlabout on 10/9/2008 12:38:51 PM
Here is a video on youtube in slow motion. It shows the cue striking the cue ball below center and following through. Hitting below center provides the direction of the spin but the follow through will determine the amount of spin imparted to the cue ball. My suggestion on following through is to put the balls your practicing on at a slight angle from each other. This way when you follow through the cue ball will draw back at an angle. This will allow you to follow through completely and leave the cue in the full forward position without worrying about it being hit by the cue ball coming back.
The only other suggestion I could make is be aware of how loose your grip is. Your back hand should be loose enough for the cue to travel forward without binding in your hand. I typically shoot with just my thumb and index finger. This grip allows my cue to travel straight through the cue ball.
I hope the video helps. I realize that is hard for a beginning player to grasp what is needed from just words on a screen. If you find someone who has a good draw shot, ask them to help you with yours. I think most shooters would be happy to lend a hand.
-Doug
faroeking on 12/10/2008 2:00:23 PM
I've read this with much interest and believe I suffer from the same malady. I'll be working on my stroke and stance as well.
Thanks.
- quickshot on 12/10/2008 2:19:27 PM
Okay, one more approach. Take a piece of paper (printer paper) and lay it on the table lengthwise. Now take the CB and put it about 1 inch from the edge (the short edge). Imagine and OB on the center of the paper that you are going to hit. Now strike the CB as if you are aiming at the OB ball. IF THE TIP OF YOUR CUE IS NOT TOUCHING THE MIDDLE OF THE PAPER WHERE THE IMAGINARY OB BALL WAS....YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING THROUGH ON THE STROKE. And without the follow you will never make a draw shot.
I am not shouting here. I just want to get your undivided attention.
"And without the follow you will never make a draw shot."
I disagre with this sentence but not the intent of this sentence. This alteration below IS always a true statement:
"And without this follow through the beginner will never make a draw shot"
After you get significantly better, there are draw strokes applied with a flick of the wrist and without follow through in certain shooting situations; Deadball rolls. Not to mention the draw (or follow) that can be applied to jump shots--which cannot be played with follow through.
But for the vast majority of draw situations, the correct draw stroke has a long smooth stroke during the moment of impact, the cue tip ending up as much as a foot beyond the original contact point.
- quickshot on 12/10/2008 10:20:18 PM
Maybe I should have made myself a little clearer. From the way the questions are presented It appeared to me that the person(s) in question is a beginner or not that much further advanced. As such, I did not mention all the other possibilities with the express intent of not cluttering up their minds with anymore than I intended.
Justanotherevolutionary on 12/11/2008 7:00:45 PMWell here's how I do it...I just recently figured out how to get draw consistently. Quickshot is very knowledgable and helped me with this partly too. Anyho, I got some crazy quirks I use. Maybe it's flawed and I'll change eventually but it's been working relatively well thus far. I messed with everything from grip to bridges to stroke and so on. I ended up with this wierd way of going about it and it probably won't feel right for you...I'm very insistent that you have to do what is comfortable for you. So I took all these tips I got, picked them apart and threw in my own perks.
So here's what I do when I hit draw. I use a closed bridge widely spread, firm around the cue without causing friction, close to the table (a low bridge) and about 6 - 8 inches of shaft. Strong grip way back on the butt, similar to my break. Cue as level as possible, and aimed about... key word, "about" 3/8 inch below center. Use a firm, (this is hard to say cuz I don't really know you're average hit) but just slightly harder than your typical shot I guess. Hit it like you mean it. And when possible such as longer shots use good follow through. And stay straight allllll the way through. Also try getting a little wrist into it. And of course hit the shot again and again. Until your arm is about to fall off. So there's my 2 cents, take it or leave it. good luck
- quickshot on 12/11/2008 9:29:46 PM
Sounds like you took the basics, added your own style and developed a good stroke. Sounds great...keep at it.
homefried1 on 12/17/2008 9:08:12 AM
If you hit the cue ball low, and follow thru, in other words, the tip of the cue MUST go right on past the cue ball. That cue ball WILL back up after contact with the object ball, providing the object ball isn't too far from the cue ball's original spot. Try it. Start out about 18 inches apart. As you get better, move the object ball further away.
From the video, it looks like you are not "pushing thru." You should push thru on EVERY shot, not just draw shots. As a matter of fact, you should shoot 99.999% of ALL shots exactly the same way, all that should change is the place you contact the cue ball, and the speed of your stroke.
SRogert402 on 12/21/2008 1:21:02 PM
Sorry if it's already been said but from your video if you watch carefully you are shooting up into the ball at the last second... Not drastically enough to where you're getting any jump at impact but enough to where you aren't getting any backwards spin on impact.
My advice is put your bridge closer to the cue ball, and make sure your bridge is comfortable and stable, because right now you're stroke is too inconsistent to draw the ball let alone control it.
tylerangle1990 on 2/19/2009 1:45:47 PM
The things I really had to get right before I could effectively draw the cue ball: 1. Follow through 2. Keep shoulder steady and make sure you have a good "pendulum arm" sort of stroke otherwise the end of the cue comes up and contacts center ball rather than below.
Some people you'll notice also incorporate a downward sweeping motion with the end of their cue into their stroke that helps them draw the ball as well. I myself do this especially on shorter shots because I do not have to shoot hard to effectively draw the ball...
Also make sure you have a good stroke when trying to draw on a long distance shot (all the way across the table and such) otherwise you will most likely put a bit of unintentional english on it which can throw off the path of your cue ball and change the way it reacts with the object ball.
- quickshot on 2/19/2009 8:49:06 PM
Thanks for your input. Every so often we all seem to get out of sorts with the stroke with out even realizing that a 1/2 tip can make or break a shot. A little head movement, blink of the eye or what ever.
Yeah, I have problems with my stroke sometimes where I'm just off my game and can't figure out what's going on until I start examining different things and find out my stroke is just a bit off...
Lanik_M on 3/17/2009 4:02:37 PM
I had this problem for the longest time and it essentially ceased when, after applying all the techniques discussed here, someone told me to keep the back of my cue down. I have never had a problem getting draw since then.
Keep the back of your cue as low as possible (depending on how much draw you want, of course) and focus on keeping it that way for the entire shot.
- quickshot on 3/19/2009 6:55:42 PM
By keeping the cue level (and that applies to many variations depending on who is holding the stick) I'm sure you also noticed that you were following through with the stroke. That is key as far as I am concerned.
There is one other thing I have learned. Concentrating on keeping the cue level can, if you are not careful, create a "slight" shoulder drop. If and when your stroke gets a little off that should be the first thing to look at because it can also cause he grip to tighten. the grip. Obviously, these are my own observations. But they work.
Line Up on 3/22/2009 7:19:10 AM
Level free-flowing follow through!
- Justanotherevolutionary on 3/22/2009 11:44:40 AM
Does this mean you are getting good draw with a level cue and a good follow through? Those are the 2 most important techniques to good draw. Glad we could all help.
Correct me if I am wrong ,but one thing that seems to be left out of all the post is that you most accelerate at or about the point of contact (force follow through). Without that force draw or force follow will not happen the way you expect it to. Once it is achieved then you have to learn how to control it. As for most solid strokes there should be a point of acceleration, that is the basis of a good follow through on most any shots. Anyone feel free to correct me if you think this is incorrect. It is very self satisfying once you achieve this. At least it was for me.
- Justanotherevolutionary on 3/22/2009 8:51:38 PM
Great job dude, just great. You are getting a feel for the draw needed to achieve good position. Getting draw and controlling draw are two different beasts to tame. I used to get hella draw, up to about 24'. Now I can get 3' if I want, 6 if I want, or 24'-30' if I am drunk and showing off, hehehe. But yea, it is like a half way point through the stroke that you find the draw, and the distance you want with the draw. It is a very quick reaction of the body and mind. As many say, it is "feel" which comes from experience. Now you should be trying to make shots with draw and trying to get on a 2nd ball with good angle for a 3rd. Distance control is key with ANY shot, follow or draw. Draw is only good if it is an only option. Although I play low english on about 80% of my shots, but that is because of the way I choose to leave myself. Start trying low and left/right for position and you will be having a lot of fun. Glad to here you got the draw working. Good work. Now test yourself. Position is 45% of the game in my opinion. Shot making is 50% the other 5 is table speed, which coincides with position. Also try low backing/following english on rail shots from a makeable angle, this is very cool and fun. You will see the potentials of low english soon and start playing it on many of shot. Now I'm quite drunk and happy cuz I just got back from yet another successful venture on my league. Yay me!...Good luck and have fun! But remember draw is typically used for geting out of "bad position" / straight in shots. Don't look to leave draw shots on every turn or your play will suffer. Draw is a rarely used commodity, but a very effective skill to have in your play book. You'll figure it out =)
Justanotherevolutionary,
I was just responding to the original post,I know how to draw fairly well and was just trying to help the one who originally posted the problem,sorry about the misunderstanding. My main point was that I think most of the post failed to state to accelerate through the follow through.
- Justanotherevolutionary on 3/23/2009 8:34:01 AM
Whoops I'm sorry, I thought you were someone else. Pocket6 is the one that needed help a while back, don't know how I got you confused...possibly the fog of beer. Anyways sorry if I demeaned your skills in any way. =/ my mistake
DoleValley on 3/24/2009 1:15:26 PM
Try this. Put your bridge hand closer to the cue ball than you would normally. About 4 maybe 6 inches. The draw shot is a follow thru shot. Make sure that your cue is as level as possible. Don't jack up the back of your cue. Also try shooting very low english...not just below center. Once you get the feel for what your stroke requires to get draw you can move up on the cue ball and still get action. But when shooting low on the cue ball its especially important not to jack the back end of your cue or you'll end up scooping. Also put the object ball only about 12 inches from the cue ball. Start easy then gradually increase you distance. Stay down and follow thru! Also a tip can make a difference...the softer the tip the more english is transferred to the cue, it grabs more. There can also be a difference on felt verse cloth. But you should still be able to get draw on any table...thats just a matter of adjusting to the speed of the table.
Three Brothers Billiards on 3/31/2009 8:18:18 AMFollow through, and hit the table about 6 inches past the cue ball with your cue. That way you know you aren't coming up on the ball.
Trouble with Cue Ball Draw
- Title: Trouble with Cue Ball Draw
- Author: wii-wii
- Published: 9/21/2008 4:36:05 PM
