I've bought a pool table for a very cheap price. I've been practicing the basics for a while and was trying out draw shots for a while now but with no luck. So I was thinking that this could be due to the bad quality of the cloth or the cue I am using, could this be the case?
- Zeke on 4/6/2013 6:45:32 AM
Think about draw shots as being possible as a result of the "time" the cue tip is allowed to stay in contact with the cue ball. The amount of "time" the tip may be in contact is determined by many things. The most important of which are:
- The cue tip should never be decelerating during that "time." Most dramatic draw will occur when the cue tip is accelerating at the moment of contact with the cue ball.
- The more level the cue stick to the table (horizontal) - the more "time" the cue tip will stay in contact with the cue ball and even more important, the cue ball in contact with the table.
- Follow thru is essential to draw. Short shock shots, minimize draw.
- The shorter the cue ball has to travel to the object ball, the greater the draw will be.
- If a dead level cue stick is possible, two cue tip diameters below dead center strike point on the cue ball - is the most draw you can induce - without the cue ball "jumping" up.
- Likewise, raising the cue stick and hitting "down" on the cue ball will negate draw most of the time. The reason? The cue ball draw cannot react with the table because hitting "down" induces cue ball hop. If the cue ball has draw spin, it can only reverse forward momentum when in contact with the felt. Hitting down, reduces the "time" the cue ball is in contact with the felt.
Let us know if this solves the problem. If it doesn't, a zillion other factors are at play; e.g., what's your cue tip like? How do you chalk up? Are the balls clean? Is the felt and playing surface okay?
One last thing. Do you have a "measles" cue ball? The red dotted balls make visual observation of "spin" easy to see. True center hits vs. all the "spin nuances" are easy to "see" with a measles ball. Not so much with a pure white cue ball. Immediately seeing what cue tip placement on the cue ball does, is extremely telling as to a whole bunch of other dynamics.
If you're low on funds, to see what's actually going on with draw, follow, etc., you could make a measles cue ball by using a belt punch on some blue painter's tape and stick a few home made dots on the existing cue ball. If they fall off, so what. It's masking tape, not crazy glue.
- oskanaan on 4/6/2013 1:13:58 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply!
I will try the measles cue ball and do some more practice to see whats actually happening. My CT is too hard, I've read elsewhere that its hard to do draw shots with a hard CT, should I try using a softer one also?
- Fenwick on 4/6/2013 4:52:07 PM
I use a fairly hard tip. Buffalo hide from Schon. It's the stroke one tip below center with stroke that makes the cue ball draw.
- Fenwick on 4/6/2013 4:55:44 PM
It should have read, :I use a fairly hard tip. Buffalo hide from Schon. It's the stroke one tip below center with follow that makes the cue ball draw."
Wish there was a edit option.
- Zeke on 4/7/2013 10:00:36 AM
There is an edit option Fen.
Look at your post in the queue. Second icon from the right when hovering says, "edit reply." If you click on the icon, your post is shown and is - editable.
The one to the left of THAT, is "delete."
- Zeke on 4/7/2013 11:08:30 AM
Yes, CT "hardnes," "shape" and "condition" all affect draw - not to mention all other forms of english as well.
But those three factors combined - only contribute maybe 30% - to the AMOUNT of spin induced. Stroke speed, location of the CT in relation to the CB dead-center and other nuances control the remaining 70%!
I urge you to briefly focus on the CT on your stick. In theory, the CT never touches the CB. The abrasive material ON the surface of the CT - does!
THAT material is chalk. The "condition" of the CT determines the shape and condition of the chalk applied thereto. We shape the CT, we rough it up with sandpaper, burnishing, a tool with tiny needs and shaping abrasives to get the CT to a shape we desire, then cove it with chalk to make the CT "sticky."
Among the biggest regrets of someone making a multi-ball "run" is a miscue. Miscues are mostly caused by bad aiming, but not that infrequently, by striking a dry spot on the edge of the CT - with little or no chalk on it.
To illustrate, chalk is like sand. If you're on a sheet of ice, trying to get traction, a little sand is great. Too much sand and the tires will spin on just the deep sand alone, e.g., like driving a car on the beach. Too little sand and the slipping is inconsistent.
Chalking up is similar. Too much in the wrong place - is as bad as none - anywhere.
If you were to do a "forum search," There's a ton of threads involving tip shape and chalking up. All better than what I could write.
Good luck and keep us posted as to what yo find.
- Fenwick on 4/7/2013 11:39:27 AM
Thanks Z. There is a small time limit as to when you can edit and I believe you need to be signed in. What would I do without you. Anything else you want to teach me smart ass?
- billiardsforum on 4/7/2013 4:13:03 PM
The forum has the edit option only for a few minutes after one submits a reply. This is to prevent someone from deciding one day to delete all of their posts (the reason being that if someone was to do so, it would very negatively affect the community e.g. with missing responses and so on).
This is probably why Fenwick did not see the edit option when he realized the typo.
Thanks again to everyone for contributing to the conversation.
- billiardsforum on 4/7/2013 4:18:54 PM
@oskanaan - its probably got nothing to do with the cloth or the cue tip.
Those shot making techniques you are practicing are difficult to refine, and they take time to perfect.
My suggestion is to keep at it, and don't shell out for better equipment just for that reason.
As with any skill it takes a natural progression over time and with much practice. I find that if I want to learn a new type of shot, I can spend about 20 hours at it and get no where. Then I take a day or two rest (away from the table all together), and come back to it. I find that with muscle memory, and after a few days of rest it seems to come more naturally to me. It works like this almost every time.
- oskanaan on 4/7/2013 11:08:04 PM
Thanks everyone for your replies, I will be practicing the shot for a while, actually I've got a little bit of improvement today after applying some advises I've got from this thread especially @Zeke 's reply. but I think I still have a long way to go. When I get the hang of it I will post what helped me so that anyone who's facing the same problem can benefit from my experience.
- Mitch Alsup on 4/8/2013 11:01:34 PM
In addition to Zeke's excellent guide to draw::
Hard tips do not , by and large, increase the spin, what happens is the the CB is in contact with the tip for a shorter duration, and thus, the overall stroke is less succpetable to jabbing at the CB.
With a well developed stroke, You should be able to draw the CB back 5-7 diamonds, people like Mike Massey can do 13 diamonds of draw--with a LEVEL cue!
But start with 1 diamond of draw, use a slower stroke that you think is necessary, the harder you hit the CB the harder it is for spin (draw) to overtake momentum (CB moving forward). It also causes you to hit higher on the CB than you think you are going to hit (lessening draw). You should be able to hit the CB with only enough energy to have it move 2 diamonds and still draw it back 1 diamond (that is a very light stroke.)
Take a stripped ball and place the stripe at the equator. You can hit as low as the stripe without miscue, but if the cue tip hits the bed of the table, the CB will jump. Even a properly spinning CB cannot draw while its in the air.
- allanpsand on 5/2/2013 9:58:18 AM
Takes all of five minutes for me to teach my students how to draw.
With the CB and OB about a diamond apart, here is the trick.
Bring the cue tip up close to the cue ball.
Look at your stick hand and make sure your lower arm is straight down to the stick.
Lower your bridge to adjust for the tip/ball contact point. DO NOT raise your elbow.
Do a straight follow through (at least six inches) and you will consistently draw.
After this, adjust your stick speed to control how far back you draw the CB.
- oskanaan on 5/2/2013 12:18:02 PM
Thanks all for your help, it seems that the shape of the tip had the most impact on my draw shots, it was too flat. I purchased a diamond cue tip sharpener and after fixing the cue tip I found an amazing difference compared to what I had before. Of course this is just part of it, the rest was that I followed the helpful advices that I've got in this post. Still a looong way to perfect it though!
- allanpsand on 5/2/2013 1:58:13 PM
Once you get some CB action, learn how to control the draw distance from a couple of inches and back about 2 D's.
For any shot of 3 D's or more between CB and OB, use follow to move the CB around.
If you can keep CB control within a 1/2 table area, you will be a difficult player to beat.
- allanpsand on 5/2/2013 2:01:00 PM
One more note - keep your expectations low when competing. Just because you get an accidental four or five diamond draw does not mean you own that shot.
Place the intended results well within your self-proven competence.
- Zeke on 5/2/2013 3:41:28 PM
Everything posted so far s good info. One thing to add to the comments is this:
Be sure the cue is ACCELERATING at the moment of contact - and into the follow thru.
This has nothing to do with how hard you hit the CB. Soft or hard hits and everything in between will impart more spin (draw) - if the cue tip is accelerating at that moment in time.
Think about that. What happens is the cue tip will be in contact with the CB for more time when accelerating.
Almost fouling by doing a "push" stroke will maximize draw. Ceck it out and let us know what happens :)