Here is the scenario: We are standing at the head of the table and looking at a rail shot on the right rail. The object ball is snug to the rail pass the center pocket near the middle diamond. We are shooting from the head of the table between the middle diamond and the head spot. The shot calls for some inside english. To get inside english do we use left or right english on the cue ball. I'm trying to settle a disagreement here between a couple of friends.
- billiardsforum on 4/20/2008 10:59:06 AM
I believe it to require right english.
See the inside english entry in the glossary. Strike to the right of the center of the cue ball, should cause it to veer right. Right English is apparently synonymous with inside english.
Hope this helps.
- quickshot on 4/20/2008 11:26:57 AM
I didn't realize there were so many definitions that applied to english.
- billiardsforum on 4/20/2008 11:30:45 AM
Yeah hahah, its frigging ridiculous. I thought the same thing when I decided to build the cue sport dictionary. I thought, "hmmm, there can't be more than a few hundred terms, this is achievable." Well, the database has over a thousand terms, and its nowhere near complete. LOL
- Fenwick on 4/20/2008 11:41:09 AM
From your reference.
Inside English is English that is applied to the cue ball in the same direction that the object ball will travel.
For example, if your shot causes the object ball to travel to the right, and you strike the cue ball to the right of center, you are applying inside English.
I just learned this and can be found in a post in the practice drills section courtisy of Joe Tucker. I again old school always just said right or left. From the example the second side is left, meaning if the object ball is on the left side and traveling left, left hand English is inside English also. As I now understand it inside English is English forcing the cue ball into the center of the table. Outside English is towards the rail side or the outside of the table. Somethime right, sometimes left. I could as always be wrong.
- quickshot on 4/20/2008 2:36:31 PM
I just read my own post and realize it may not be totally clear. The ob ball is on the right rail and we are shooting from the left side of the table on the opposite end by the center diamond. The object is to put the ob in the corner pocket. Wouldn't that be moving the ob ball left?
- Fenwick on 4/20/2008 8:44:55 PM
I just re read my post and yours I also didn't make myself clear in my haste. Sorry. I'm taking my time this time around.
- "The ob ball is on the right rail." Got it.
- "C.B. is left of O.B. and O.B. will be traveling left." Understood.
My answer is inside English would be left or away from the rail.
Outside English is on the side of the C.B. towards the closest rail while inside English is on the side of the C.B. away from the closest rail. It can be right or left, of that I'm fairly certain not to contradict you.
It was so much easier just saying left or right.
By the way, I use inside or out side English for position not so much for shot making even on frozen balls. I picked that one up from a Dr. Dave video. I would swear he or someone else said it doesn't matter and you can't English a ball into a pocket while I thought you could. I could be wrong here AGAIN?
- quickshot on 4/20/2008 9:04:24 PM
After due deliberation and consideration and the reference to the english database that @billiardsforum has put together so well, I think this thread should come to an end. I am inclined to go with Fenwick's new observation and agree with him. I shall inform my friends that right is right and left is left. If what you are using works....stay with it, and that will be the end of the discussion. Now rack em up and lets play.
- Fenwick on 4/22/2008 11:13:32 PM
Another point of view.
This terms are a little confusing at first but once you get the idea, it should be simple enough. Let's start with "inside" english. Refer to the first illustration on the left. Here you are shooting the object ball to go to the left (from the shooter's point of view) into the corner pocket. If you apply left english on your cue ball, this is called "inside" english. If you apply right english on the cue ball, this is called "outside" english.
Still confused? Let's look at the next illustration. Here you are shooting the object ball to the right (again, this is from the shooter's perspective) into the corner pocket. Applying right english on the cue ball is called "inside" english while applying "left" english is called "outside" english. So, what have we learned? To summarize, if the direction of your english is the same as the direction of the object ball into the pocket, you are using "inside" english. If the direction of your english is opposite that of the direction of the object ball into the pocket, you are using "outside" english.
Another way to understand inside and outside english is to look at the angles. Refer to the first illustration on the left. If you use left english on the cue ball, you are on the "inside" or smaller angle. If you use right english, you are on the "outside" or the bigger angle.
I meant no disrespect in my post and am now more confused then when I started. Here is the link.
. http://www.easypooltutor.com/article88.html Left and right are much easier
- quickshot on 4/28/2008 11:08:06 AM
I am now in total agreement with Fenwick, and I thank him for the time he took to explain it all. I wonder if they still sell that after shave lotion called "Old English." Or am I dating myself?
- tedmauro on 4/29/2008 12:55:49 AM
I read the entire post and the conclusion that inside English is the same as the cut is correct. In the shot described, cutting the ball to the left. Applying left English to the cue ball would be inside English. This inside English is cool on rail shots. It will tend to make the object ball spin to the right and cause it to hug the rail if its frozen or fade towards the pocket if it's off the rail. This leaves room for some lee way in the shot. You could cut it a little thin and the left English will throw it towards the right to the pocket.
The inside English will cause the cue ball to travel down table to the left. With some top English applied and a good stroke you could swing the cue ball 3 rails and up to the top right hand corner of the table with this shot.
If you needed the cue ball to draw up the table to the top left corner, you would use Right English (Outside) and strike the cue a little below center and to the right. You can cut this ball a little thick because the right English will throw the object ball to the left. This allows a little draw before hitting the rail with the right hand spin giving you the angle to draw to the top left hand corner of the table.
When executing either of these extreme English shots, speed of your stroke is very important. You must hit it soft enough to give the spin a chance to take and with enough finesse to get it up the pool table.
Sorry about the long winded post. I know this stuff for a fact and can show you if your in Colorado. I am playing in Vegas May 9th to the 17th or 18th in the BCA National 8 Ball Tournament. Meet me out there and we can work on it in style. I will be in Las Vegas the 8th to the 20th. COOL.
- quickshot on 4/29/2008 11:26:05 PM
Ted: I took your tips to the practice table this afternoon, and I spent 2 hours working with them. It took a little time but they started to sink in after a while. I'll keep working on them until they become second nature. Good luck in Vegas.