Imagine you are shooting the 8, but it is at the edge of a corner pocket blocked by two object balls. You can't hit it, and your opponent can't shoot his/her balls without fouling the 8. I think a ref would call a stalemate, but what do you do in the bar you play in?
- billiardsforum on 1/28/2008 6:52:08 PM
Depends on whether you are playing on a coin-op table for the bar question. Since bar room rules vary from place to place, players might decide on a re-spotting of the balls, or at least the eight ball, to a neutral area.
There is a chance also that the referee could call the game in the favor of the player who had the most balls pocketed. (in this case, the person who would be shooting at the 8 ball, but can't)
It will be interesting to hear what has to be said on this one though - are you 100% sure that the opponent (shooting at the two object balls blocking the 8 ball) would have no chance of tapping on of their balls loose? You have to think about it like - could a very skilled player do that? If so, that player should shoot, and if he or she is unable to knock a ball loose, they lose the game.
Good question though - its a real thinker, and does not come up a lot.
- Fenwick on 1/28/2008 9:33:11 PM
Let me try and dissect this question as I'm not sure I understand it but it is fascinating. It's my shot and I have to shoot at the eight ball, correct? I shoot and miss because your balls are blocking me. What is the house rule is the true question? Are we playing ball in hand or do I lose the game because I failed to hit my intended object ball, the 8? It would be considered a foul equal to a scratch, yes or no? What is the penalty for fouling on the 8 ball in a bar? If it is the same as a scratch then I guess I would lose? The bar rules here are established before every game but it always seems something like this comes up and I will have to add it to my list of questions before the next match. When you say fouling the 8 do you mean sinking it?
Now you either won because I did not hit my 8 ball or have ball in hand depending on the house rules. If you have ball in hand this group of balls must be touching thus if you shoot and hit either of your balls you would pocket the 8 ball and lose. But if that is the case when I shot I must have made the 8 ball on a illegal shot and I lost or hit nothing. The referee could call the game except there is none in any of the bars I play in.
The only answer that makes sense but I doubt is allowed is I push then you push until we have agreed to the game being a draw like in Chess. I have no problem with the push shot but it doesn't fly in the bars around here. It's considered dirty pool. So I would have to go for the shot and lose the game and you win! Look up straight pool and see how the record was set and why it is no longer played the old 1800's way, push push. I have to complement you on this mind twister. The BCA's rule book is 102 pages long and now will have to go to 103. On page 46 - section 2.8 says if you foul and do not pocket the 8 ball it is not loss of game, it is ball in hand. So now we have come full circle to where we do have a stalemate and replay the game except, the person who reaches 3 fouls in a row is declared the loser! That would be me if I was on the 8 ball and no stalemate. Did I get it right?
- guest on 1/29/2008 12:09:28 AM
Right, you're shooting the eight, but it's obviously impossible to hit. Any attempt would hit an opponent's ball first and sink the eight, which would be a loss.
Our rules: you always plays it as it lies, unless there is a cue ball scratch or jump which is ball-in-hand from the kitchen. When shooting the 8, scratching or jumping the cue ball (whether or not the 8 goes in), sinking an opponent's ball, sinking the 8 in a pocket you don't call, or hitting the opponent's ball first when you sink the eight is a loss. Some of these rules might vary a little depending on who you're playing. The beauty of "bar rules".
Thanks for bringing up pushes! That's a vital point I left out. It's a little ambiguous where I play... basically, you "have to try" which is a retarded rule, because now you get to argue about someone's intentions! Any of the random jerks I play with would probably demand that I "try" to conjure the physical impossibility (lose) or forfeit (lose). Then you're likely to be in for a fight (lose even if you win). No matter what, you LOSE! I guess that kinda answers my question, thanks! LOL.
I asked because a situation similar to this came up in a game between friends. One ball wasn't touching, so after I set her up with a push she was able to wedge it through, knocking the others clear. The "dirty" push set her up for a plausible win, so it seemed fair. Got me to thinking though!
Yeah, bar rules... where the opponent can scratch and make you shoot a long kick from the kitchen at the eight which is frozen to the short rail in the kitchen... but he didn't INTEND that did he?
- Fenwick on 1/29/2008 6:25:37 AM
"I have no problem with the push shot but it doesn't fly in the bars around here. It's considered dirty pool." I don't make the bar rules but if I have to play in the bar I have to live with them and you are right, It's a lose lose situation.
"Yeah, bar rules... where the opponent can scratch and make you shoot a long kick from the kitchen at the eight which is frozen to the short rail in the kitchen... but he didn't INTEND that did he?!"
Of course he did and they do that here also and it's part of the reason I don't like bar rules or playing with drunks. They can as they call it dirty pool you but you can't do it back to them? Another lose lose.
"random jerks" they are everywhere.
- Fenwick on 2/10/2008 6:56:57 PM
If the table is in a position such that a referee has determined that any attempt to pocket or move a ball will result in loss of game, and each player has had three innings without significantly changing the position, the referee will declare a stalemate and the game will be replayed with the player who broke the game breaking again.
- cademfjohnson on 4/14/2008 4:07:56 AM
I'd just take a jump shot :D